Wednesday, October 31, 2007

From Sunny looking over comments on Debate last night:

It was the seventh time the candidates had met and it was strikingly different in tone from any of the prior debates. At times, it seemed that Mrs. Clinton was parrying criticism from every corner of the stage, reflecting the vulnerabilities that come from being a high-visibility candidate who has built large leads in national polls with just two months to go until the first vote.

Mrs. Clinton was attacked for not offering specific plans on what she might do with Social Security. She was challenged for voting to designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a foreign terrorist organization. She was assailed at one moment as being disingenuous, the next as a symbol of tired Washington establishment and the next for being unelectable.

At one point, she appeared to say she supported an attempt by Gov. Eliot Spitzer of New York to give driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants, a plan he abandoned in the face of fierce opposition. A moment later she backed off, leading her opponents to denounce her again for obfuscating.

The tone of the debate, which was sponsored by NBC News, had been established before the candidates walked onto the stage at Drexel University in Philadelphia, when Senator Barack Obama of Illinois proclaimed in an interview over the weekend that “now is the time” to begin drawing tough distinctions with Mrs. Clinton.

He did so almost immediately, accusing Mrs. Clinton of “changing positions whenever it’s politically convenient,” pointing to the North American Free Trade Agreement, torture and the war on Iraq. “Now, that may be politically savvy, but I don’t think that it offers the clear contrast that we need,” Mr. Obama said. “I think what we need right now is honestly with the American people about where we would take the country.”

But for all the attention Mr. Obama drew to himself coming into the debate, he was frequently overshadowed by former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina, who — speaking more intensely — repeatedly challenged Mrs. Clinton’s credentials and credibility, and frequently seemed to make the case against Mrs. Clinton that Mr. Obama had promised to make.

“Senator Clinton says that she believes she can be the candidate for change, but she defends a broken system that’s corrupt in Washington, D.C.,” Mr. Edwards said.

He added, “I think the American people, given this historic moment in our country’s history, deserve a president of the United States that they know will tell them the truth, and won’t say one thing one time and something different at a different time.”

The debate appeared to mark a turning point in the Democratic contest, as Mrs. Clinton’s rivals feel increasing pressure to begin trying to weaken her as the first voting approaches.

Though there were a few light moments — Representative Dennis C. Kucinich of Ohio said he had once seen a U.F.O. — the tone of the night was tense and combative.

Mrs. Clinton walked into the debate expecting to be the target of attacks but as the night went on, she appeared surprised by the intensity as she was challenged not only by her opponents but by the moderators, Brian Williams and Tim Russert of NBC.

Mrs. Clinton smiled far less frequently than she had in earlier debates, often looking grim as she turned her head from Mr. Edwards to her right to Mr. Obama on her left. “I need to rebut that,” she said at one point. “I don’t know where to start.”

Mrs. Clinton pointed to the fact that Republicans have been assailing her constantly as evidence that she was delivering a clear message.

“The Republicans and their constant obsession with me demonstrates clearly that they obviously think that I am communicating effectively about what I will do as president,” she said. “And I am trying to do that because it matters greatly. We’ve got to turn the page on George Bush and Dick Cheney. In fact, we have to throw the whole book away. This has been a disastrous period in American history, and we hope it will be aberration.”

The attacks on Mrs. Clinton grew so intense that one opponent, Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico, who served in President Bill Clinton’s administration, scolded the others. “You know what I’m hearing here, I’m hearing this holier-than-thou attitude toward Senator Clinton,” he said. “It’s bothering me because it’s pretty close to personal attacks that we don’t need.”

“But the important thing is that we need to stay positive,” Mr. Richardson said. “We need to have disagreements on the issues, not on whether you can trust. I trust Senator Clinton but I don’t agree with her on a majority of issues.”

Mr. Edwards and Mr. Obama almost stumbled over each other in offering a different interpretation of the Republican attacks on Mrs. Clinton than the one she offered.

“Part of the reason that Republicans, I think, are obsessed with you, Hillary, is because that’s a fight they’re very comfortable having,” Mr. Obama said. “It is the fight that we’ve been through since the ’90s. And part of the job of the next president is to break the gridlock and to get Democrats and independents and Republicans to start working together to solve these big problems.”

3 comments:

SunnyG said...

From Ed:
Edwards has made more sense to me from the beginning of the campaign. Obama remind me of the Poli-Sci professor I had at Brown. And, similarly, having found a suitable point of view, thinks all that's necessary is repeating the lesson plan. Further and pragmatically, I don't think Obama is electable. I think Hilary has revealed a "war-prone" pov and is more visibly opportunistic than ever and therefore off the list. Edwards is better than he was during his last campaign but he blew it so badly in his debates with Chaney that he leaves me uncertain that he can "kill the bull". What the hell is the answer, Sunny?

Kathy from MO said...

I have to agree with Ed. I think that Edwards is more polished now than in the last election. He seems more sure of himself and more defined in where he is going. He seems more on a mission. His policies and programs are clearer than anyone else's. He is taking on Hillary very aggressively (more so than Obama), and I think he will do the same with the Rethugs! I love Obama and think he is a breath of fresh air, but I am not sure he is ready to be president.
Kathy from MO

SunnyG said...

From Kathy:
I don't know. I think that Hillary is a well oiled machine. She has the power of Bill and his contributors behind her. I also think that the Rethugs want to run against her so it would not surprise me if they are backing her. They certainly seem eager to tout her as the frontrunner in all of the polls. If people hear it enough, they tend to believe it. The polls certainly could be scewed in her favor right now.
I think Edwards is doing well on the ground. They show him in Iowa in a dead heat with Hillary and Obama. He is also doing well in New Hampshire and has the backing of some big unions. I would love for him to come out and kill Hillary in those early primaries. She seems to think she is already annointed the nominee! Howard Dean had a huge lead going into the primaries and got bumped off as you recall. However, it was the Dem establishment that didn't want that maverick as a candidate. The grassroots loved him. Hillary has the old Dem establishment in her corner.
I just hope people wake up. I would hate for Hillary to be our candidate knowing she probably will not make it through the general election. Romney is such an empty suit. He will say anything. Giuliani is the same way. Say anything to get elected. He is also a big hawk and a flip flopper. He also seems to have some really shady friends and advisors. Thompson is so out of it, someone asked him about civil unions and he went off about the soviet union (that doesn't even exist anymore!) Who is he Mr. McGoo? However, the hatred for Hillary seems to run so deep that one of these idiots could get elected and they all seem to be ready to follow Bush's lead!
I don't know what to do except send money and talk up Edwards and what he stands for to as many people as we can. He just has to do well in the early primaries or I'm afraid he is a goner.